verticopter.NET: Forums / Tutorials for flying the VC / how do the RC models of the verticopter get stabilized in roll and pitch during hover ?

AugustaWestland heli assembly in the UK (Merlin AW101)
interesting to check out state-of-the art helicopter assembly by Westland.AW101 seats around 25 troops, has three 2,300HP turbines, so close to 7,000 sHP total.Here is a TV show reporting about the Me[more ...]
Posted by VCTO
26 Nov : 01:57

Re: Proto2 Flight #10 @ Moffett (Canards view)
works with Mozilla Firefox....Thanks
Posted by bephelps
11 Nov : 06:48

Re: Proto2 Flight #10 @ Moffett (Canards view)
Hi BryanIndeed there was a glitch in my video clip, I re-postedthx for checking and flagging back.Oliver.PS: note that the site is not up to date (we did 2 more flights with P2 after than one, and 5 n[more ...]
Posted by VCTO
08 Nov : 12:28

Re: Proto2 Flight #10 @ Moffett (Canards view)
I don't see or hear anything!
Posted by bephelps
08 Nov : 10:41

Re: Completion and maiden flight of proto3 POC
Thanks Sugar, I am posting the videos shortly..here is one pict that was de-interlaced from the HDcam ground record.note that was a CTOL only flight (thrust horizontal), checking 3-axis stability and [more ...]
Posted by VCTO
26 Sep : 18:06

Re: Completion and maiden flight of proto3 POC
Oliver, congrats on achieving this exciting milestone. I can't wait to see the video footage of it's maiden flight.
Posted by Sugar
24 Sep : 15:47

Completion and maiden flight of proto3 POC
Sep.07 2009. Moffett Field, CA - Proto3 was completed for a maiden flight on Labor Day 2009.it flew for a full round of batteries and for 5 minutes. The performance was nomimal and first flight was ve[more ...]
Posted by VCTO
17 Sep : 23:09

Re: how do the RC models of the verticopter get stabilized in roll and pitch during hover ?
Good question , but let me refine it : should we use a v-tail mixer for the Inverted VTAIL ??Well indeed NO, the VTAIL is ready here to stabilize in yaw and give yaw control, not to provide pitch/roll[more ...]
Posted by VCTO
10 Jun : 02:03

Re: how do the RC models of the verticopter get stabilized in roll and pitch during hover ?
Oliver, would it be possible to utilise a V-mixer to combine both pitch and roll?
Posted by Sugar
10 Jun : 00:46

POC test flight updated agenda
May 30. Mtn View,CA - Based on recent developments in the summer agenda linked to Vertical Challenge, Oshkosh and Mark's traveling, it was decided to cancel Flight 13 with proto2 to then focus on the [more ...]
Posted by VCTO
09 Jun : 00:19

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VCTO

02 Sep : 09:43

Hi Peter, the 1:5 kit is first scheduled for release this year, more details in coming newsletters. 1:10 kit could be next year.

JJtr1954

02 Sep : 06:08

please, how and where can I buy a 37" R/C verticopter?

Goldstarz

01 Jul : 15:39

Dear Oliver,

How bout Hundreds of the 7 seater Verticopter used for mass transit around big cities, flying 6 1 person drivers into the big cities and landing near their workplace?...Actually we need a bigger Verticopter lol.....Kevin R.

wije

04 May : 09:07

Thanks ,Oliver.

VCTO

16 Apr : 23:54

Hi Peter, VC.net is not the support channel for the sim, plse email support©verticopter.com for that purpose - thanks !

PeterJames

16 Apr : 12:19

Sorry i must be having a bad head day!?
Just download and unziped the meg pack of Verticopter for my X-Plane 9 it is sitting in the down load folder, so I know you know what I am going to say next! How do I start to use and fly this in my sim? help? new to i mac! regards to anyone who can help.
thanks.

VCTO

07 Apr : 21:51

Hi Goldstarz, this is not of live chat as not enough visitors at one time, but you are welcome to start a topic !!

Goldstarz

07 Apr : 12:21

Anyone here to chat with?

VCTO

03 Mar : 02:26

Hi John, the market is asking for true-VTOL RCs and not only STOVL ... working currently on just doing this (VTOL) ...

Sugar

25 Feb : 13:47

Hi Oliver, any progress on kits yet?

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how do the RC models of the verticopter get stabilized in roll and pitch during hover ?

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VCTO

Sun Jun 07 2009, 12:15PM

Joined: Sat Mar 28 2009, 08:31PM
Posts: 88

Hi , this is an excellent question that was submitted by Doug, who recently joined the VCMS forum users.

I took the liberty to copy his question to the tutorial area to address this question publicly, as the VCMS forums are exactly the right place to exchange flying tips.

Well, technically Verticopter RC from the 5% scale to the 20% are not stabilized in hover by active circuitry like a cyclic control, or a variable thrust vector or air puffers (like the full-scale brethen would be using).

VC technology is called a new breed of STOVL, becaused before being a VTOL machine it is first a STOVL machine, for short-take-off-and-landing.

The official specifications for the 1/5 RC model, available later this year as a kit, will report a speed envelop of 2mph to 120mph, yes the lowest speed isn't zero (hover) but 2mph.

Unlike helicopters that have an active stabilization controls in pitch and roll (cyclic), the VCs rely on airflow over the wings and its moving surfaces to provide roll, pitch and yaw controls.
Those surface are over-dimensionsed in the case of the RC models. the 1/5 has in total 6 surfaces providing roll and pitch control :
- 2 canards in the front, set up as elevons
- 2 center elevons
- 2 wing elevons

The RC models are still classified as a STOVL machine, because they need a little bit of air flow over those 6 surfaces to provide some pitch and roll authority. Note that those surfaces, at low speed, will be able to deflect + and - 30 degrees, so it is recommended that the RC pilot use a dual rate or triple rate RC transmitter and be able to toggle between these 2 settings:
- low-speed (STOVL)=> high deflections (+/- 30 deg)
- high-speed (CTOL) => low deflections (+/- 10 deg)

now in the real world, there is always some ground wind at the field or on runways, and it will take only 2 knots of wind to turn a VC RC into an actual hovering machine, but this is putting a minor constraints to the flight path (here "hover path"), the RC pilot needs to always point the VC model into the ground wind.

This is a subtle difference in properties with Helis, those can hover facing in any direction even with ground wind, VCs are not capable of such feast, they will hover only while facing the direction of the ground speed.
The wind heading needs to be known by VC pilots upon T/O and landing.

I invite anyone from this forum on VCMS to experience the property of VC RC models during ground hover, by requesting a copy of the flight simulator for the 1/5 scale. this is a perfect way to answer this question, "how does it do it to hover ?", the answer is rely on a wind ground speed of at least 2 knots and aim into that direction and you will hover, this is very easy to experience this in the xplane sim.

Sorry, that was not a short answer that this a key and unique feature (or constraint) of the VCs products, they can hover but with a fixed heading.

Rgds,
VCTO (Oliver).

[ Edited Sun Jun 07 2009, 12:20PM ]

Sugar

Sun Jun 07 2009, 07:36PM

Registered Member #11
Joined: Wed May 06 2009, 01:24AM
Posts: 11

Oliver, to have the optimum transmitter to support this model, how many channels (minimum) are we talking about?

[ Edited Sun Jun 07 2009, 07:37PM ]

Cheers,

Sugar

VCTO

Mon Jun 08 2009, 02:25AM

Joined: Sat Mar 28 2009, 08:31PM
Posts: 88

Good question John,

the 1/5 RC will require a 7-channel TX and 7-channel RX, here is how those channels are distributed :

CH1/2 => elevon channels, those 2 channels will be a) front canards (2 servos), b) wing elevons and center elevons (2 servos)
=> the TX needs to have one mixer or one elevon mixer available for this.
CH3 => rudder (2 surfaces in the VTAIL), this channel can also drive directly the steering of the retractable nose gear
CH4/5 => those are the power level for the motor (throttle engine up, throttle engine down), often they will be programmed differentially with the input of the rudder channel to allow yaw control in hover, a second mixer is needed here.
If hover is not required, it can be a single channel that feed both throttle in parallel.
CH6 => can be either the retract channel for the 3 landing gears, or for independent nose streering.
CH7 => servo for thrust vector, drive then angle of the combined thrust.

So the basic setup (no gyro but retracts) takes 7 channels.
Oliver.

Sugar

Wed Jun 10 2009, 12:46AM

Registered Member #11
Joined: Wed May 06 2009, 01:24AM
Posts: 11

Oliver, would it be possible to utilise a V-mixer to combine both pitch and roll?

Cheers,

Sugar

VCTO

Wed Jun 10 2009, 02:03AM

Joined: Sat Mar 28 2009, 08:31PM
Posts: 88

Good question , but let me refine it : should we use a v-tail mixer for the Inverted VTAIL ??

Well indeed NO, the VTAIL is ready here to stabilize in yaw and give yaw control, not to provide pitch/roll control.

Now keep in the mind what is an elevon mode !? it is just a v-tail mixer for 2 surfaces of the tail that'd got flattened and are actually aligned at the trailing edge.

We have already 6 moving surfaces mixing pitch and roll, we could also mix 2 more surfaces of the VTAIL, that would bring to 8 surfaces mixing roll and pitch, doable but an overkill, whereas we need the Vtail to provide yaw contro especially in hover mode.

in summary, mixing pitch and roll is essential to this architecture as we want to maximize pitch authority at the lowest speeds (VTOL speeds) and use as many moving surfaces as possible, but without sacrifying the yaw control.

Oliver.

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